Technical questions, Ylands DX11 and small ask for advice what to update in my system?

[ComR 57]

Hi,

Why I'm asking on this forum? Simply - because I'd like to be sure that if I upgrade my system Ylands will be working as it should work (I know, for now it's early beta, so I understand we all have to wait). And who can know better that devs and people who know them?

I have very old system now, it's still working ok, but my Radeon HD 6870 1GB seems to be obsolete. i do not want to spent much, so I'm thinking about buying used graphics card with 2-4GB of VRAM and probably upgrade my 8GB RAM to at least 12GB. I'm using Win7, 64 bit. Phenom II 965, 3.40GHz. Overall I'm happy with it, I've got very fast RAM, small SSD for a system and normally it would be ok with me, but I it seems that's not enought for most indie games based on Unity (and I'm programming in Unity a bit too and I clearly can see problems with performance). 

I cannot afford new system and in fact I don't need much, so I decided to upgrade my system bit by bit.  I rarely play, but I'd love to play without crashes and see any of my games at last close to 60FPS (I'm happy if any game gives me ~30FPS). 

-Some people recommend me ultra fast HD as a ultimate solution - it could be a case, but I'm not convinced, because software which is not using HD at all is too slow too. And super fast HD isn't a cheap thing.

-I cannot afford for now buying new processor, especially because it would be necessary to buy new motherboard as well in my case.

-I can Buy cheap (and probably poor quality 16GB of RAM or add something a bit better to have 12GB... But, is 12GB enought?

-Another problem is my Graphics Cards and this is probably first thing to change, because 1GB or VRAM is clearly too less. 

 

I know - first response will be "google it - don't spam" - yes, I was googling it and I realised that AMD and Nvidia have nasty custom of reboxing old cards and sell these with new firmware as something "new" and "better". I almost bought such "occasions". For now I'm looking for something like XFX Radeon RX 460 DDR5 (hopefully with 4GB VRAM onboard) or Nvidia GTX 750 Ti (hopefully with 4GB VRAM too). These two cards seems to have similar performance and, what's important for me, I could buy both for around 150USD. I know these cards are old, but they should run new Hitman, Formata or Mafia III, right? My Radeon cannot even start any of these titles.

Maybe someone could suggest me card between 100-150USD (yeah, I know, but used, but working device would be nice). 

I know it's off topic a bit, but I think I'm not the only one person trying to understand what system specs do we need to run Ylands properly?

And I have two questions to devs or people who know something about Bohemia plans for Ylands configuration (after full release - I mean)?

a) How much RAM do we need to play Ylands as intended, with biiiiiig maps?

b) How much VRAM do we need?

c) Are there any particular recommendations, to make our Ylands even prettier? (FX chips, PhysiX anything?)

d) Is this possible, or will be, to run Ylands with DX9? (there is an command line; "-dx11", maybe we could try -dx10 or something?) that could help many of us for sure!

e) Is this possible to turn off antialiasing? I cannot bock it in Crimson or CCC and AA is killing my FPS! Help!

f) Will Ylands support positional sound emulation with headphones?

g) are you planning to support TriDef 3D or any native way of displaying Ylands in stereoscopic formats (side to side for example, would be enought co let us configure Ylands for simple VR sets - that would be great. I'm trying to configure Ylands to work in side by side mode, but I have technical problems with my android devices, but it seems that Ylands can be played on any VR system/device - please, think about it!  

h) We were promised "pause" in single player mode! Please, do it! This is really frustrating if you are devoted to game... and you have to turn the game off completely if you want to talk by the phone of make coffie! (I have to talk and constantly feed my poor pirate! :)))) ).

 

All The Best and Thank You in Advance!

 

[Energritz_ 107]

7 hours ago, ComR said:

Hi,

*snip*

Firstly welcome to the forums.

The system you have mentions is close to 6-8 years old, this is considerably old in the computing world, goods stuff for putting up with it till now.

Not so long ago i had a similar system, but intel, that lasted 6 years, i miss that system.

Anyway onto some points you have mentioned

1.  When you boot up your computer, before doing anything else, load up Task Manager, wait 5mins, tell me how much RAM the system is using
2. You have acknowledged that your Graphics card is dated, and your budget is $100~$150, what games does your current card run? i.e 30~60fps ideall

Now answering your other questions:

A) Officially 4GB minimum, 8GB Recommended, Plus Operating system memory. However i have a system with 16GB and after a good solid few hours 3-6 Hours, my memory is gone (but i do travel around a lot)

This game loves Memory, so 16GB would be my recommendation.

B) DX11 Capable card with 1GB VRAM minimum, or GTX 760 or above.

C) Nope, it's low polly game, meaning its probably going to be the best you can get.

D) We don't know, performance in theory should be better, however there is no known switches yet, maybe consult unity website for details?

E) I don't think AA is even a thing? Your Graphics card provider should have an option to Globally turn off AA in its menu system.

F) No idea, probably not until full release we won't find out.

G) Sound like a very old format.. if you're thinking about VR, you need a system upgrade. If you're thinking of Triple Monitors (Surround)

You would need a class GTX 9xx cards or AMD equivalent or 2 Cards from the Older generation of Cards.

H) That would be nice, but currently saving and returning to menu is only option for now.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Energritz_

[ComR 57]

Hello Energritz,

My system is 10 years old for now... Yes, I know it's tragedy...
i will make memory usage after start test, in fact I never tried to see how much is it, but as I remember it's around 2GB RAM in constant use. Wit hYlands it's 4GB, after 20-30 hours it's 4.7GB.

My system seems to be pretty good as for so old system - for example I can play Hitman Absolution on ultra with around 40FPS (it's very good for me - I see no problem), It's enought to play GTA V on medium/high mix at 30 FPS, Watch Dogs on medium can be run on 30FPS. I cannot run new Hitman (it's around 4-8FPS with all graphics off - literally all haders off), I can't run Mafia III at all (all graphics off - gives me 2-4FPS or so),  GTA IV at High works pretty good - 30FPS. Total War series (Empire, Napoleon, Shogun II) on Ultra can run above 30FPS (again it's ok with me).

After hour or so, Ylands alone takes 4.7GB of RAM after around 30 hours of exploring. When I start ne game, Ylands take around 4GB.

And your kind answers:

-16GB of memory Ylands takes right away? That's very bad news for me. I have 8GB, but very fast RAM, I can buy 16GB RAM for it, but much, much slower...  RAM.

-You ment DX11 or DX11.2? I do not want Win10 and I will not buy new system. I have Win7 with latest DX updates, Devs said they want Ylands to work on Win7 and I hope it will work....

-1GB VRAM is minimus, but as I can see, in my case 1GB VRAM do not work. I can start Ylands on Ultra, but after few hours game will crash if I do not set Video settings to LOW.

-GTX 760 is very bad news for me. GTX 760 with 2GB VRAM can be ok? I guess it will change soon, as Ylands will be released stable within around 2 years, as I was told. So, during these two years specs can be changed much... Could anyone advise me where to but used Graphic Card, but preferably not on eBay or Craiglist? eBay is expensive for me, especially shipping costs and Craiglist accept only few countries. Local eBay equivalent, here in Poland (A... thing... ) is extremely bad choice - very expensive used stuff and scums are more than usuall thing. 

-Yeah, Ylands is low polly, but it's not not optimised yet and giant maps make Ylands memory hungry game - that's I'm asking for any advice.

-Hm, conctacting Unity isn't bad idea, but... it would be nice if Bohemia could ask Unity Developers for detailed configuration for us? Unity Devs probably will not bother to answer one customer asking for settings for one game they probably have no idea it exists...

-AA is VERY BIG THING. It was possible to force turn off AA in CCC or Radeon driver, but in newest driver versions and Crimson Drivers edition it's imposible t turn off any graphics settings - yo can only set "use app settings". By default Ylands is using AA (you can clearly see this in low resolution Video settings), in my case AA 2x (which is minimal setting) force any game from 60FPS to 30FPS. You can try different AA type, but result is very similar, because game is rendered in 2 times bigger resolution and then scaled down to fit your resolution. AA is killing any of my games if there is no AA disabling function. Additionally I really do not need any AA, because my resolution is 2048x1152, and it gives me great graphics even without any Antyaliasing.

-Regarding VR - try to find even Youtube info - even my od, slow system is capable of running most of the games in 3D without bigger problems. I was astonished and I couldnt' believe it, but in fact - I guess any system can run any 3D game in VR if properly configured. Please, take a look at TrinusVR, Intugame and TriDef 3D. There are also alternatives, but the three apps seems to be the best ones (and last time competition made them fighting everyday for every additional frame!). It works!

Thank you for your very informative letter and for your time. I have only one question, thought - do you think my Phenom II 965 x4, 3.40GHz is ok for upgraded, new Video Card? It makes sense to upgrade Video with my old CPU?

Thank you and Best Regards!
ComR
 

[Energritz_ 107]

9 minutes ago, ComR said:

Hello Energritz,

My system is 10 years old for now... Yes, I know it's tragedy...
i will make memory usage after start test, in fact I never tried to see how much is it, but as I remember it's around 2GB RAM in constant use. Wit hYlands it's 4GB, after 20-30 hours it's 4.7GB.

My system seems to be pretty good as for so old system - for example I can play Hitman Absolution on ultra with around 40FPS (it's very good for me - I see no problem), It's enought to play GTA V on medium/high mix at 30 FPS, Watch Dogs on medium can be run on 30FPS. I cannot run new Hitman (it's around 4-8FPS with all graphics off - literally all haders off), I can't run Mafia III at all (all graphics off - gives me 2-4FPS or so),  GTA IV at High works pretty good - 30FPS. Total War series (Empire, Napoleon, Shogun II) on Ultra can run above 30FPS (again it's ok with me).

After hour or so, Ylands alone takes 4.7GB of RAM after around 30 hours of exploring. When I start ne game, Ylands take around 4GB.

And your kind answers:

*snip*

Hey ComR,

• 16GB is not used straight away, but if you play for a good amount of time, all of your memory will eventually deplete. Thats just how Ylands is at the moment.
• Yes, Keep settings to Low settings, this will help the Graphics process things easier.
• GTX 760 can still keep up with the current  games, just make sure to keep settings lower, but higher than your current card. As for 2nd hand, is there a 2nd hand market in poland? try looking into local papers or classifieds, or swap meets.
• Low Polly, I guess you can make things better with Low, Med, High, Ultra settings, other than that, AA but your trying to stay away from that.
• As for Dx9, putting "-force-d3d9" argument in the start up section for games might work. Right click game in steam, Properties > Set launch options, paste in there, try and run it. It might work.
• As for AA, i feel you here, again this is bad design for AMD as well, I've always used Nvidia and the option has always been there. I can only suggest voice this with the Dev's, to add an option in the video options.
• As for VR, personally i find it gimmicky, Cool yeah.. but needs a lot of work. Its seems what you are mentioning is like a budget VR kit? again im not knowledgeable enough, but what i do know Proper VR needs a powerful rig.

[ComR 57]

Hello Energritz,

Well, it seems I've found the problem. When I start the system and before starting any game I'm clearing every not needed software, services, background activities - everything except crutial things. Completely clean system uses 1.6GB of RAM. Yesterday Ylands crashed again, but this time again only Display Driver and Ylands still was holding memory and playing music and sounds. And... Memory used after resetting display driver was... 6.7GB! So, clearly - Ylands crashes on me simply, because it's not using swap-file?? It seemd that virtual memory was not in use at all. Additionally I've checked Ylands LOGs and as I supposed - few second before the crash, Ylands was clearing memory and tried to download part of new island I was exploring. And everything would work, but in the background was my ship (as always ship) and in the very moment ship started to be rendered - game crashed. So, now I know the reason. I don't understand why Ylands is not using swap file - I have 32GB swap file on SSD.

Personally I cannot stand Ylands on Low quality - I have to do it, but game is almost unplayable (and there is practically no difference in performance between LOW and ULTRA in my case - the only difference is faster usage of RAM - as I can say. FPS are almost the same - Ultra: 10-40FPS, Low: 15-50. I prefer less FPS and to see what's around me...).

So, GTX 760 isn't the best, huh? It will probably should last me for 3 years or so, so probably I'll try to find something a bit better? 

Yes, there is second hand market here in Poland. for some reason people think that used, two years old GC is worth 90% of new one and many retailers are selling very old cards as "new ones", because they are still in boxes. Additionally AMD and Nvidia is doing just the same, just changing boxes, serial numbers and coolers... But yes, with a bit of luck you can find reasonable deals too. However, as I can tell people are prefer eBay or Craiglists as best source for big occasions. Additionally, there is no such thing here in Poland as "selling day" or "promotion day", as many people have in Walmarts or whatever. If any shop is selling something cheaper - it's usually something damaged or from display booths.

"-force-d3d9"

Thank you!!! I was looking for this command for months now!!! Yes, I know how to use it - I just couldn't find anywhere command lines for Ylands (Unity commands could possibly work?).

Yes, I know AA is a pain - I never use it, but Ylands do not allow dissabling AA. And no - Crimson and last CCC AMD drivers do not allow to force turning off AA completly. I know my card would be literally two times faster, at least two times. This is something I tested for years. Unfortunatelly Ylands devs do not allow us to choose many video options... and AA is the crucial one in my case and I guess for many people. Low poly game should work lightning fast. I'm able tu run smoothly GTA IV and GTA V on High, Hitman Absolution on Ultra, Mafia II on Ultra, Total War series on Ultra (including Rome II). I understand Ylands is still Beta and it's notoptimised, but at last it would be nice if we could choose DX version and turn off AA...

I was posting AA problem on this forum many times, but probably not many people were interested in the problem, so I never heard any answer, but... I will do it again - for the cause!

Regarding VR. I was sure it's not worth it (I'm still prefer 2D gameplay), but I was amazed that actually budget VR can be and really is working and possible to achive. There is tons of DX plug-ins and third party software allowing any DX game to be converted to side-by-side display. The only problem is configuration. In fact Ylands Devs do not have to work on it at all, the only problem could be performance and compatibility with plugins mentioned. I'm currently trying to build simple, cheapest possible VR system, but my system performance is biggest problem. I can play Ylands in VR, but if I need LOW settings for just play - I need setting twice as much lower to display Ylands in 3D. And it's not so impossible as people think. 3D is processed by PC and Android system is used mostly for tracking. With additionnal tracking system (and there are tons of these) you can achieve Vive or Oculus quality (DK 1 version without any problem in fact, even on slower systems). Real problem is to find good quality lenses and configure display to your eyes... and... of course - you need high resolution android phone. Powerful rig is needed only for two things only: 90FPS display and accurate head tracking. If you prefer "sitting experience" and do not care much about head tracking (yes, you loose much of immertion) - it will be fine even with chinese 4USD googles or google cardboard - everything depends on configuring lens distortion. Oculus and Vive are overpricing their systems.

Thank you for your time and kind help!
ComR
 

[ComR 57]

Hello Energritz,

Command "-force-d3d9" doesnt' work.

I tried a few combinations and it doesn't work or gives me old error: "fatal login error". Would you mind to check if command line actually works?

Thank you for your time and kind help!
ComR
 

[ComR 57]

Hello Energritz_,

I was wrong - error I had was an accident. and "-force-d3d9" does work. Game looks a biw worse, but it's almost 50% faster, so It's a big thing! Thank you once again!

Thank you for your time and kind help!
ComR