New building system 0.11 opinions and feedback

[Mantje100 5]

Hi all,

There has been some comments on the 0.11 post on the new building system they have introduced in the latest update, maybe it's good to give it it's own topic? The question is:

What do you think about the new building system?

I've seen some people say it's bugged, for those people: feel free to post the bug and your specific problem in a seperate topic!
(read https://ylands.com/community/topic/34-what-to-do-in-case-of-technical-issues/ for futher details on how to do that.)

I think the new building system feels a lot better! I have to learn more on how to use it to see its full potential, but my first impression is very good.

I do have a suggestion:
What if.. there is an option to toggle between pointing with your mouse (like it is now) and using only your keyboard to place blocks?
example: W = north, D = west S = South, A = East
Pressing one of those keys will move the block one grid snap, hold down the key to move further (not too fast please haha!)

the arrow keys still move your caracter, and the mouse moves your camera (still over the shoulder camera look!)
I can imagine that this way roofs for example are a lot easier to build.
it is a more advenced way of building and I think casual gamers will not use it at all, but I think it's quite handy for all the players who build those amazing structures in this game.

[bojo2736 1016]

Still learning it. 

Where did they put the swivel options? I used to use hold H to tweak placement of items like chairs to give them a bit of off grid placement. How is that done now?

[Fompster 141]

@bb cakes_P1 if you want to move items freely then you can turn grid placement off with a button on the bottom left corner of the screen (looks like a grid). This is only in the editor though not sure how its done in explore.

[bojo2736 1016]

Thanks @Fompster_P1 I have much to learn here.  I'm not sure  I described it right.  I don't know if I'm looking for free placement.   To me that means what we do with E?

[Indomitus 388]

So far I'm not really impressed by it (in Explore mode).  By removing the "G" option which could restrict it to a single X, Y or Z axis, we've lost a lot of precise control over the blocks.  The CTRL+mouse scroll option doesn't move the object flat across the grid, but rather on a straight vector towards or away from the player based on the camera.  There's also nothing to allow precise movement to the sides if the player can't move around (like on a narrow pathway or on a ship), and the auto-placement logic still tries to interfere with manual placement.

I have quite a few thoughts on it, but for certain there needs to be some specific dedicated control for moving straight along each axis, and some way (active or in the background when we hold a certain key) to deactivate or override the auto-alignment.

[Indomitus 388]

The new system also can't seem to tell the difference between a ship's grid and the world grid right beside the ship.  While building a ship, I decided to extend my dock a little bit, and it kept attaching the blocks to the ship, even though they weren't even remotely touching each other.  Then a bit later I decided to free place a couple lanterns on my dock.  The one placed near the ship moved when the ship moved.

In addition, my ship which was anchored, kept moving each time a block was added, which eventually meant some blocks refused to align with it correctly.  I had to build my ship in the Editor.

AND... In the Editor, Duplicate is NOT working right.  I press CTRL+D, and duplicates, I move the new ones to the location, and it WILL NOT let me release them.  I end up having to button-mash to try and drop them, so I have no clue what button is actually making it happen.

edit:  Apparently, it's a right-click on the mouse that release them in the Editor.  This is starting to get annoying.

Building 2.0 is BROKEN.

Edited November 23, 2018 by Indomitus

[kimbuck 746]

@Indomitus ....     the   ship grid and pier grid  issue  caused me to  waste  about   4  hours    after the  .11 release.   There was no way i could get the   building  blocks to align...and it  only  after i finished the  ship  and  was able to move it  that i discovered  some of the pier  blocks   were attached to the ship

My latest    attempt at a ship build  also had the ship move as i added things ..despite the  anchor  down  and as a result  the  deck panels  are  out of  alignment    by about  2  degrees!

It is a nighmare to try and  build  anything    now....    we NEED   1st person back.

[Mantje100 5]

Alright, building on ships not seem to work as intended.

10 hours ago, Indomitus said:

So far I'm not really impressed by it (in Explore mode).  By removing the "G" option which could restrict it to a single X, Y or Z axis, we've lost a lot of precise control over the blocks. .. ...

....I have quite a few thoughts on it, but for certain there needs to be some specific dedicated control for moving straight along each axis, and some way (active or in the background when we hold a certain key) to deactivate or override the auto-alignment.

Like I suggested in my beginning post, some sort of toggle with the building system it is now and a sort of "advanded" building mode could be something? and also include this "G" option. (maybe even more? who knows)

I try to see it from the Ylands dev's perspective, and I think they  tryed to make a more accesable building method. Casual gamers are going to be the mayority who are going to play this game and it must be as simple and to the point as possible. Having so many options could dismotivate people who just want to build something quick and simple, the learning curve has to be good to keep those people on board. (correct me if I am wrong)

On the other side we have the creative fanbase or how do you say it.. who make all those awesome objects and push the limits of creations in this game. Ussually it take hours and hours to build something and all extra features are well used.

If you have a toggle to " expert building mode" or something so the casual gamer knows this can be complex, and the creative players can still create what they like. This way you can have a win - win situation and hopefully it will be appealing to both playing styles.

[equieri 8]

Hello, yes we have decided to add further block manipulation controls. In the 0.11.1 it will be possible to move the block itself. After holding RMB the WSAD will move the block in the horizontal plane. We're trying to polish this mechanic at the moment.

 

Also we're trying to address the ship issue which i agree is unfortunate consequence of our desire to capitalise on the ability to hover with the block in free space and place it into difficult positions without the need to aim at an existing block on the ship.

 

11 hours ago, Indomitus said:

The new system also can't seem to tell the difference between a ship's grid and the world grid right beside the ship.  While building a ship, I decided to extend my dock a little bit, and it kept attaching the blocks to the ship, even though they weren't even remotely touching each other.  Then a bit later I decided to free place a couple lanterns on my dock.  The one placed near the ship moved when the ship moved.

In addition, my ship which was anchored, kept moving each time a block was added, which eventually meant some blocks refused to align with it correctly.  I had to build my ship in the Editor.

AND... In the Editor, Duplicate is NOT working right.  I press CTRL+D, and duplicates, I move the new ones to the location, and it WILL NOT let me release them.  I end up having to button-mash to try and drop them, so I have no clue what button is actually making it happen.

edit:  Apparently, it's a right-click on the mouse that release them in the Editor.  This is starting to get annoying.

Building 2.0 is BROKEN.

 

The manipulation with object in the editor after they have been placed should not have been affected by the new building mode. I'm not sure what issue exactly you are referencing with the duplication but I've tried to duplicate objects on current and past update with previous building system and couldn't tell a difference. Maybe if you could elaborate?

 

Thanks for valuable feedback though. We'll try to work out your grievances and hopefully get the system to where everyone is as happy with it as possible.

[Indomitus 388]

I don't think 1st Person could help with this issue, honestly.  A precise view doesn't help if we don't have precise movement.

I like the idea of having an Expert mode that we could toggle into, kind of like toggling into Free Placing mode.  The basic building would auto-snap, and have minimal controls for manually moving the pieces.  Expert building mode would turn off auto-snap completely, and have dedicated controls for moving pieces along each axis.  It could be mouse movements, keyboard controls, or even the Move widget like in the Editor.  In Expert mode, there would be no automatic placement of pieces, only messages if it can't be placed in the current location ("Not enough room" or "Must touch the ground or another block").

As for the system's confusion over Ship grid vs World grid, if the building is happening in a location where they overlap, it either needs to look at the context of structures that it's closest to, or maybe it can prompt us to choose the correct one in some way.

 

edit:

Thank you for the response, @equieri.  This is definitely a topic we feel strongly about.  It is good to see that better controls will be returning soon.

As for the behavior I experienced in the Editor, I will work with it some more this weekend and see if I can describe it better.

Edited November 23, 2018 by Indomitus

[Mantje100 5]

1 hour ago, equieri said:

Hello, yes we have decided to add further block manipulation controls. In the 0.11.1 it will be possible to move the block itself. After holding RMB the WSAD will move the block in the horizontal plane. We're trying to polish this mechanic at the moment.

Thanks for valuable feedback though. We'll try to work out your grievances and hopefully get the system to where everyone is as happy with it as possible.

Great news! I will defenetly try it. Thank you for the response.

[bojo2736 1016]

9 hours ago, kimbuck said:

@Indomitus ....     the   ship grid and pier grid  issue  caused me to  waste  about   4  hours    after the  .11 release.   There was no way i could get the   building  blocks to align...and it  only  after i finished the  ship  and  was able to move it  that i discovered  some of the pier  blocks   were attached to the ship

My latest    attempt at a ship build  also had the ship move as i added things ..despite the  anchor  down  and as a result  the  deck panels  are  out of  alignment    by about  2  degrees!

It is a nighmare to try and  build  anything    now....    we NEED   1st person back.

Building anything near a water has always been problematic for me. But it does seem as if the ships behave differently in shallow water (aka beside piers and shores.)

Since the change of the water, I do see there is a difference between deep water and shore water. They are visually different pieces as the load in. I suspect this is the cause. I haven't built a ship yet, but I will work on it in deeper water, not right next to shore.

[Mantje100 5]

On 23-11-2018 at 2:08 PM, equieri said:

Hello, yes we have decided to add further block manipulation controls. In the 0.11.1 it will be possible to move the block itself. After holding RMB the WSAD will move the block in the horizontal plane. We're trying to polish this mechanic at the moment.

 

It work like a charm! I really like this way of building.
I do have one more suggestion what could make it easier for me to build:

sometimes when using RMB + WSAD I want to move the camera to where I am building. when I do that the object orientation follows the mouse and the object is not in the desired location anymore. Is it an idea to let RMB + WSAD "overrule" the pointing way, so the mouse only moves the camera when RMB is pressed, and is not included in the object orientation?