Dev Diary #60

[Aleš Ulm 1725]

Hey there, fellow ylanders.

Today I would like to discuss what we’re planning to do about the first person camera, that we removed some time ago. Since we won’t be able to bring it back for quite some time (definitely not before 1.0) - as this would require both programmers and animators to focus on that during the time when we need to fix critical issues - we would like to at least make things easier for you (and just to note: we are still improving the building mode and the 3D person camera a lot, so even those aspects will see an improvement). Let me tell you what we would like to put into the game and how we think this might help:

There are situations where switching to first person camera made things much easier, like when you’re trying to build something, move through tight corridors or interiors, etc.

Then there are situations where no matter how good the 3rd person camera can become - it still won't be good enough. Controlling some devices (for example firing cannons through hatches) or simply interacting with some elements in the level (imagine a machine with small buttons) are examples that come to mind. Specifically because of this, we would like to add something we are internally calling the “Interaction view”.

In essence, we would like you to be able to switch to something similar as the first person view. However, its purpose would be to perform interactions such as operating devices, interactions with levers, buttons, picking objects and some other actions.

We are positive this feature will help to alleviate a lot of the problems you are experiencing right now. Of course, as this is something different from the original 1st person camera (which as you might recall, had to be removed because of some issues with fighting animations, interactions, etc.), let me tell you how we imagine it would work: in this new camera mode, you'd see the world in 1st person but won't be able to move around or fight - only interact with objects around you. We want to give you back as much of the first person camera functionality as possible, available through a key press and not just an unsupported console command. This is our idea as the first step on the road to a proper first person camera support, please do let us know what you think about this!

 

We don't have cool raytracing reflections... but some players always find a way! (Raytracing reflections courtesy of @Bob Salvador)

 

Since this has been quite a long Dev Diary already, let me pick just a couple of questions to answer:

Are you considering adding quests to your game with rewards for completing the quest? It seems to be lacking once you have discovered all the islands and caves.

No exactly “quests”, but we’re already giving the game some sort of “story” where you will be rewarded as you go through it.

When are horses going to be "fun"?

Good question. We’ve had new animations ready for some time now, and we know how to make horses more fun, but because many more important things that need fixing came up, this was put on hold. It is, however, in the 2019 roadmap. We will talk about that soon.

That’s it for today. Have a great weekend, ylanders, and as always - stay classy!

[Igor Q. 519]

Isn't aiming with a weapon essential 1st person view though?

 

Also, I've tried playing the game with a controller but it lacks alot of accessibility, will this be available in the future?

Edited January 11, 2019 by Igor Q.

[RedEagle_P1. 905]

I would say that anything less than full 1st person camera would be a real disappointment for city roleplay and PVP games. This game is meant to be a game engine so I believe 1st person is essential. 

59 minutes ago, Aleš Ulm said:

Are you considering adding quests to your game with rewards for completing the quest? It seems to be lacking once you have discovered all the islands and caves.

If you give us the power to put power-barriers in editor maps and generate multi-biome maps, I could see players creating subnatica-like ocean survival games with quests. Giving us the power to create them would be amazing  

 

Keep up the good work!

 

Red

Edited January 11, 2019 by RedEagle_P1.

[TheSparkPlug 128]

I would happily keep the current "broken" first person view (which IMHO is still a lot less broken than the current third person view!)

I am also happy to keep the unecessary "unsupported" message every time I switch to it.

The only small change you need to make (until it is fixed) is to give us back the ability to switch modes with a key.

[Aleš Ulm 1725]

That's, unfortunately, not an option - having a message visible the whole time doesn't solve anything as long as the mode is accessible in the very same way as other, finished features. A fully published game is something completely different than EA version. I honestly don't remember ever seeing a full release of a game where an important feature (we do know that this is an important feature, no question about it) would be half-baked with a "unsupported" note. Fully published means all present features finalized. If we can't pull off something in time, it shouldn't be there. Also imagine this - we do this, a lot of creators start working on games requiring fps camera (we know some of you already have) and then, we we come out with the final implementation of the first person camera it might work in a slightly different way to the old one. Maybe in a tiny way, but big enough to break some specific games. That's something that must not happen once we release the game.

Bear in mind that the current state isn't in any way final - the new camera (to be released in the next update) should make moving around in tight spaces better, the feature I mentioned in this DD will make a lot of things easier as well. There's always some space for improvement, but there's one thing that we won't do and that is put something that is not good enough into Ylands 1.0. To put it very bluntly - releasing Ylands 1.0 without 1st person camera is not such a big issue, because it's not that important in Explore (and will be even less with the improvements I mentioned), creators can create games that that don't depend on it (while maybe putting the rest on hold if they really can't be played even after the changes we mentioned) and things can get only better later, when the camera is re-introduced. It's not ideal, but it's no tragedy either. Asking players to pay the full price for a full release of a game that has unsupported, broken features present... is.

I understand that you may see the situation in a different way, you would plan/do things differently and we respect that, but this is how we see it. That being said, it surely isn't a reason for considering this topic closed - I just feel the discussion will be more relevant if we have it once 0.12 is released and the planned improvements are released.

(and regardless of  how you feel about this topic - have a great weekend!  )

 

[bojo2736 1016]

I think spark plug was talking about during this interim time, not on full release. The console command is clunky. It was better when we could just click a single letter.  I think we all understand it is what it is at this point.

For me, I used it a lot in sailing because the sails get in the way. Can the sails fade out of view when actively sailing? This would help a bunch. For me anyway

 

[lojoey 0]

Hey,

My fps is in the 30 to 60s with like 25% cpu usage, I got a AMD R3 1200 with a r7 260x. It doesnt matter if i set my settings to low or ultra my fps is the same,

Is the low cpu usage going to be fixed soon?

[TheSparkPlug 128]

1 hour ago, bb cakes_P1 said:

I think spark plug was talking about during this interim time, not on full release. The console command is clunky. It was better when we could just click a single letter.  I think we all understand it is what it is at this point.

For me, I used it a lot in sailing because the sails get in the way. Can the sails fade out of view when actively sailing? This would help a bunch. For me anyway

 

Yep. All I was suggesting was that - until FIrst Person is fixed - we dont need anything other than to get back the ability to switch modes with a single key press.

I also worry that the proposed 'workarounds' are likely to break more than they fix

[TheSparkPlug 128]

3 hours ago, Aleš Ulm said:

I honestly don't remember ever seeing a full release of a game where an important feature (we do know that this is an important feature, no question about it) would be half-baked with a "unsupported" note. 

... and I don't remember a full release game ever having such an important feature completely missing!

You ended by claiming that it isn't important in explore, yet you began by saying the opposite. I can tell you, as a player, and based on the huge response it's had, it is massively important. It may even be the difference between people being able to (or wanting to) play or not... and that's no exaggeration.

[Miguel Preguisa 443]

On 11. 1. 2019 at 5:54 PM, RedEagle_P1. said:

If you give us the power to put power-barriers in editor maps and generate multi-biome maps, I could see players creating subnatica-like ocean survival games with quests. Giving us the power to create them would be amazing  

1

Have I heard Subnautica? 

[RedEagle_P1. 905]

1 hour ago, Miguel Preguisa said:

Have I heard Subnautica? 

We might have to work together on something

 

[Miguel Preguisa 443]

2 hours ago, RedEagle_P1. said:

We might have to work together on something

 

 

Trust me, you wouldn't want to  I have a terrible workflow. I have only this multipurpose room (interior+exterior), radio and the plants done. Plus half of a Seamoth. And I started on this last weekend   But I'm happy to share once I get something more. At least some hatches, corridors and a moonpool (I have no idea how to build the holographic map of the scanner room)

[Aleš Ulm 1725]

Hi guys. I'm sorry that I didn't get to reply sooner.

@bb cakes_P1 Sure thing. I can definitely see us doing something about those sails  Actually these things are something that are solvable without having first person camera (Assassins Creed Origins - just from the top of my head)

@TheSparkPlug I'm pretty sure that improvements we're working on won't make things worse - those are pretty much standard features used in in many modern games.

@RedEagle_P1. We definitely have some more plans for the barriers. I don't have any ETA for that but, more we're already working on giving creators more control over ylands creation.

[Sapioit-a933737c585f579d 0]

On 1/17/2019 at 9:39 AM, Aleš Ulm said:

@TheSparkPlug I'm pretty sure that improvements we're working on won't make things worse - those are pretty much standard features used in in many modern games.

My question would be: Why are you so hellbent on not bringing the old camera mode back with the click of a button? Just bought the game and I'm seriously considering getting a refund just because you removed the 1st person camera. In the time I played on my friend's account, I have not used the 3rd person for more than 20 minutes in total out of 100+ of hours I've spent in-game. This is would not be the first game I give a bad review for removing the 1st person camera or not having a 1st person camera, and I'm sure it wouldn't be the last either. I mean, it's not like you removed something insignificant. The time spent removing the 1st person camera and improving the 3rd person camera could have been partially spent actually fixing whatever you say is broken in the 1st person camera (which I have not noticed back when I played the game of my friend's account, before the 1st person camera was removed). The only reason I bought the game is because I read that the 1st person camera is back. But if it's not a fully functional first person mode, then I have no more reason to not get a refund.

First of all, PVP becomes unplayable without a FULL 1st person camera, especially with more enemies, for most people.
Second of all, precision placing become imprecise. Or, at the very least, I would have to switch from 1st person to third person A LOT.
Third of all, houses and ships with tight spaces, mining tunnels, using machicolations and using arrow slits becomes nearly impossible.
Fourth, and maybe most important, IMMERSION IS GONE !!!
Fifth, a "first person shooter" without the first person camera mode is a "third person shooter". You might have noticed that it nowhere near as popular as the first person shooter genre, including tournaments and competitions.
Sixth, the most popular games in the genre have both 1st and 3rd person camera modes. Those without both are most often a lot less popular.

Those are just a few reasons off the top of my head why a FULLY FUNCTIONING 1rd person mode is MANDATORY.

Edited June 29, 2019 by Sapioit-a933737c585f579d