Dev Diary #50

[Aleš Ulm 1725]

Hey there, fellow ylanders.

You know that we like to share with you information about what went right, but that we don’t hesitate to talk even about things that don't work as we planned, about things we could have done better.

We have talked several times about the reason why we put microtransactions even in the Early Access stage (we will be updating the Monetization FAQ very soon to make sure it's up-to-date with changes mentioned here) – we wanted to show players what the game will be like when it’s fully released. The last thing we want would be for anyone to get attached to Ylands and then feel “betrayed” by us putting them in the game after we leave Early Access. In addition to that, it gives us a chance to see what works, discuss it with you, and make changes when needed.

Some time ago we have introduced Pets – you can get some by playing and some via the store - and based on your feedback we can tell you like them a lot. We have also mentioned that before leaving EA we want to add “Costumes” – something that will let you adjust the overall appearance of your character (in games where this is enabled by their creators/admins – we will talk about some more later). We expect that you will like those as well.

Unfortunately, the same thing can't really be said about Decorations. We have analyzed how much are players interested in those,  we've talked to some of you and read the feedback you keep providing us with. Long story short – Decorations are not popular enough. There are some ways how we could try to change it, but most of them would require putting more restrictions in the game or finding ways of “forcing” players to want them, to need them. Exactly the things that we said we wouldn’t do. And we won’t. 

 

Hmm, is it Ylands or Dishonored?   (Dishonored Harbour courtesy of @Deadeye_Rob)

 

So, in the update 0.11 we will be removing the Decorations from the store and making them available to everyone for free. We understand that there are players who have bought some – you don’t have to worry, though, as you will be refunded (we'll provide more information about this as we get closer to 0.11).

If you have any questions about this, we are ready to answer them below this post.

That’s it for today, and we’ll talk to you again next Friday. Until then have a great time, ylanders, and stay classy!

[RedEagle_P1. 905]

When talking with my clan we all love the pets. You pay one time and you get something cool and it does not give you an advantage over other players. 

However, when talking with people I got the exact opposite feeling about decorations. People disliked worrying about using them up. There were also some concerns about adding them to blue prints and comps and having them removed. 

I would say further community engagement on decorations could make them work but the fundamental concept would need to be changed. 

I also found that the active part of the Ylands community tends not to be so much against micro transactions as most gaming communties although the word itself has become taboo among PC gamers.  Since most of us are adults we understand you too want to fund your project just as we work for funds so we don't have a problem with it. 

That may change as the game grows. I would ask active players like @bb cakes_P1 and @StoutCrusher how they feel about decos and how they could be improved or implemented better. 

All the best as always @Aleš Ulm 

[RedEagle_P1. 905]

Oh and @kimbuck, @Chromedome2 and @MyPa553ng3r_P1

could you enlighten us with your thoughts on the microtransactions? 

[bojo2736 1016]

Decorations as they are now are problematic.

I am not against the coyn store at all.  In fact, I look forward to more decorative content. Building is my passion in this game, and I want more stuff.  As Red said, I support being able to buy more content for both more content, and to support game development.

My other favorite game is The Sims 4. There are multiple stuff packs, game packs and extension packs every year. I buy them all.  I probably have well over $200 invested in tgat game, and eagerly await every new addition.

The biggest difference is having to buy decorative items by the item. I would prefer to pay a little more, and then just own them. Also, they need to have the same 2 minute period to be able to move them. As it is, I have to decide if a build is worth using up the limited amount of chairs I have.

I also would like to be able buy them (or coyns) through Steam.

I would also like to see the decorative stuff, and costumes, opened up to the modding community, monetezed or not.

I will be very disappointed if tge decorative items go away and we are left with the very sparce items currently in game. This could actually put me off the game entirely.

[WijkagentAdrie 384]

I think I kinda liked the idea of decorations somehow, as it simply means more diverse assets, especially if that means that there's an incentive for modders and BI to create more assets for the game. Will the current decorations be added to the game as "skins" or as seperate items? I hope that removing decorations won't mean that there won't be many new assets.

Adrie

[Chromedome2 34]

2 hours ago, RedEagle_P1. said:

Oh and @kimbuck, @Chromedome2 and @MyPa553ng3r_P1

could you enlighten us with your thoughts on the microtransactions? 

It's the way of corporations these days to not only sell us something but in an ongoing effort to have their cake and eat it too they repackage it and sell it to us again! Now, I paid for the use and the enjoyment of every single solitary asset and feature in the Ylands game why should I pay more or pay again ... and keep paying again every time they figure out another way to repackage it? As as for the player made assets if anyone should be compensated for them or any part of them it should be the players who made them. Microtransactions? It's a scam! 

[RedEagle_P1. 905]

16 minutes ago, Chromedome2 said:

It's the way of corporations these days to not only sell us something but in an ongoing effort to have their cake and eat it too they repackage it and sell it to us again! Now, I paid for the use and the enjoyment of every single solitary asset and feature in the Ylands game why should I pay more or pay again ... and keep paying again every time they figure out another way to repackage it? As as for the player made assets if anyone should be compensated for them or any part of them it should be the players who made them. Microtransactions? It's a scam! 

I kinda meant in the context of the message I posted just above that

 

[Chromedome2 34]

2 minutes ago, RedEagle_P1. said:

I kinda meant in the context of the message I posted just above that

 

Why should my opinion differ in the least? They made the damned deco rare for a reason. It's always been in the works to repackage them and sell them to us again!

[RedEagle_P1. 905]

16 minutes ago, Chromedome2 said:

Why should my opinion differ in the least? They made the damned deco rare for a reason. It's always been in the works to repackage them and sell them to us again!

I was thinking more along the lines of specific implementation points or specific issues.

[Chromedome2 34]

2 minutes ago, RedEagle_P1. said:

I was thinking more along the lines of specific implementation points or specific issues.

Stop beating around the bushes and just spit it out.  I have no specific thought on any one thing. I see the big picture and I don't like it in the least. And no, I do not want to pay extra to get access to more of the same old deco that we all paid for.

[bojo2736 1016]

I don't understand that attitude, honestly.  If I buy a car and a couple of years later it comes out with new features, I don't go to the dealership demanding the new features for free.   

If I go to work, my boss doesn't just pay me once.  I get paid for the work I do.  Devs should get that too.  There will be no incentive to develop the game if there isn't money to be made.  The base game will work without the purchases.  The purchases enhance.  No one is forced to buy anything.

My desire is for more stuff.  If that comes through purchase in the Coyn store, fine.  Just make it easier for me to purchase the coyns.  If it is through the modding community, fine.

I 

want

more

stuff.

 

[kimbuck 746]

I never purchased any decorations...  preferring to  hold onto my coyns for possible future enhancements  like  customized  avatars  shapes/ faces etc   to  make   us individuals look  "unique"

More female  clothing  would be appreciated...and not necessarily clothing that's   medieval  ..maybe  more  modern  stuff but  not too  futuristic...  ie  better shoes  and   maybe  dresses/skirts? ( and perhaps  avatar  breast enhancement  for us gals...)

The decision to  refund spent  coyns to those who purchased  decorations  is  admirable...  this is the  first time i have seen this  in a a game  and   it makes me  want to stick with the game  more. - BI cares about their  player base!

When  modding   comes   available, i guess we could see an "economic base" develop  with some players   creating and  trading/selling  objects through a trading place. Perhaps there could be a special region in MP  where sellers  can set up their avatars as "npc traders  with " stands/"  to sell their  suff?

Any chance of a pet " bat"    in future releases?

 

[TheSparkPlug 128]

Decorations were always going to cause issues - they make Devs paranoid about people inadvertantly getting something for free and so put in more and more safeguards - this is almost certainly the reason why offline single player is not an option (and probably why people were finding there worlds reverted to earlier save versions).

Skins, pets and costumes, however, cannot be placed in a world and so do not cause these issues.

Ditch the fee for decorations, but dont stop adding new items such as chairs to the game.

[RedEagle_P1. 905]

2 hours ago, bb cakes_P1 said:

I don't understand that attitude, honestly.  If I buy a car and a couple of years later it comes out with new features, I don't go to the dealership demanding the new features for free.   

If I go to work, my boss doesn't just pay me once.  I get paid for the work I do.  Devs should get that too.  There will be no incentive to develop the game if there isn't money to be made.  The base game will work without the purchases.  The purchases enhance.  No one is forced to buy anything.

My desire is for more stuff.  If that comes through purchase in the Coyn store, fine.  Just make it easier for me to purchase the coyns.  If it is through the modding community, fine.

I 

want

more

stuff.

 

Agreed! More content the better. These days devs work on games post-release and that work needs to be paid. 

1 hour ago, TheSparkPlug said:

Decorations were always going to cause issues - they make Devs paranoid about people inadvertantly getting something for free and so put in more and more safeguards - this is almost certainly the reason why offline single player is not an option (and probably why people were finding there worlds reverted to earlier save versions).

Skins, pets and costumes, however, cannot be placed in a world and so do not cause these issues.

Ditch the fee for decorations, but dont stop adding new items such as chairs to the game.

The fear of people sharing decos may hurt sharing in general which I think is never good. There must be a solution to this however -- maybe the packs allow you to give so many away? Idk. 

Offline will be coming to the game later

Skins and pets work great I think. 

 

[bojo2736 1016]

1 hour ago, TheSparkPlug said:

 

Ditch the fee for decorations, but dont stop adding new items such as chairs to the game.

This is an option.  I would pay for DLC the same as I do in my other games.  Give me stuff I want and I will buy it. 

[bojo2736 1016]

I would also like to have giftable pets.

[RedEagle_P1. 905]

24 minutes ago, bb cakes_P1 said:

This is an option.  I would pay for DLC the same as I do in my other games.  Give me stuff I want and I will buy it. 

Ownership and the ability to share it a bit would be cool. 

19 minutes ago, bb cakes_P1 said:

I would also like to have giftable pets.

Great idea! 

[MyPa553ng3r 72]

I typically disregard in-game purchases.  However, in Ylands, I really like the idea of vanity items, and have spent coyn on them.  I drew the line at the furniture deco because of the "using them up" situation, although I understand why that's a thing. I feel as though the blue prints are where the in-game purchases might get interesting.  I would be more willing to purchase an asset, like a car or a mansion, if I didnt have to collect the resources to make it.  I'm somewhat happy with the way it works now, as long as you stay true to your core vision.  I should still be able to play the game comfortably without having to buy anything else.  And make it so everyone else can graphically see that I spent this coyn on this revolver skin.  Im tired of being the only one that knows I have this sweet Sat night special in my pocket.

 

 

[StoutCrusher 37]

As for limited use items, such as the decorations are right now, I don't like the idea. If it was a 1 time transaction, I think they would fare better. Like bb cakes mentioned something like the Sims packs I think would work better. Maybe design a themed pack, and allow that pack to be purchased, but the purchaser would have unlimited use of those items. Of course worrying about other players gaining them through means of copying Compositions is a problem, you could program a check list to see if that player has that pack before they grab that Composition. If you made building materials that way, I think you'd have a bigger problem and make players upset, but decorations would be great for this. Like a Halloween theme pack. Maybe a jack-o-lantern, scarecrow, and those sort of things as the decoration pack, but once purchased, the purchaser has access to it forever...not limited use. Your big comfy chair would sell I'm sure...as I want to be able to make them on my Server. Maybe even make it so it's now craftable, not a just here's the item; make it like a recipe and you can now build it in game.

Btw, Pets are awesome, I have my flying Pig that I found on the Official Servers. Any chance of wiping those servers to allow players to have another run at gaining those? You could also do an "Easter Egg hunt" of sorts for other items, like maybe a rare decoration, as I'm sure you noticed an increase of people playing Official Servers when you released the Pets.

[StoutCrusher 37]

Also a nice Throne would be another great addition to be purchasable. As a lot of us, are using the editor to make them.

[Deadeye_Rob 908]

Regarding the removal of paid decorations I feel that this is a good move. I bought a pack of Jewellery Boxes. Unfortunately, being the perfectionist/hoarder that I am, I refused to add them into my builds due to their scarcity.

Not many Game Devs out there are willing to admit mistakes in the direction of their games much less than actually refunding the fan base. It's good to see Ylands evolving with integrity. ?

[RedEagle_P1. 905]

27 minutes ago, Deadeye_Rob said:

Not many Game Devs out there are willing to admit mistakes in the direction of their games much less than actually refunding the fan base. It's good to see Ylands evolving with integrity. ?

Agree, very cool  

[RedEagle_P1. 905]

So much helpful feedback guys

[Aleš Ulm 1725]

Thanks everyone for your feedback!  Let me make a few quick points:

* All objects that have been Decorations up until now will simply become "good-looking, ordinary objects", we don't plan to remove any objects from the game. We will still keep creating objects that would up until now "qualify" as Decorations, only now they will be added to game along with any other free items.

* There are two reasons why pretty much no new assets are added into the game right now (I'm talking about assets in general, not Decorations) - firstly we are storing some to be released  when the new world comes out but also, most of the artists have been adjusting existing objects in the game because of the new renderer we'll be releasing as a part of 0.11. Even though there won't be any visible changes to these objects when you inspect them (apart from some nice side-effects such their LODs behaving in a better way), these changes will result in some pretty major performance gain. Since a lot of objects need to be adjusted, it has taken some time.

* It's always a bit unfortunate when something that people spent money on becomes free for everyone. We definitely want to make it up to players who paid for those things and understand how they might feel about us doing this change, but it's important that we removed the feature now and that it's a clean cut, not us experimenting some more with it. We want games that players make to look awesome and since we didn't do a good enough job of creating something players would be willing to pay for (we can discuss if it was because of the price, of how the feature was presented, etc. - but this doesn't really matter that much) the only solution is the let everyone have it for free. We don't want to create awesome-looking assets which are then enjoyed only by a handful of players.  

[gobonjoon 1]

I hope you get caught in a bug. I can not do it because I have a bug.