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RedEagle_P1.

1.5 update won't bring real change unless...

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I see a lot of people getting hyped up about the new concept art from BI: 
2020-09-17_134126.png.31ae31ea7f941e7011f8e3a97fd16b90.png

I admit it looks very exciting. However, the situation that’s been happening for years now diswades me. 

For years we have been talking about the bugs plaguing the game and BI has been talking about new features. 

These bugs include: 

Weekly server wipes
No being able to eat
Not being able to sleep
Not being able to interact with objects

And when I bring up these issues: 

On 9/16/2020 at 12:51 AM, Adam Snellgrove said:

Please for these issues if you could make a forum post with output_logs/screenshots/reproduction steps, then we can start fixing them. All of these we'd love to fix, but we can't do it without info 😥

They have been depending on user-testing for a long time now because (I believe) they don't understand how serious the situation is.
If this does not change, we are unlikely to see real benefit imho.
 
If the response was something like “we are going to deploy a team to find these bugs and fix them” then I would be very excited but since they are depending on the player base, we can expect little-to-no real improvements because there just aren't enough players who care and submit bugs.

2020-09-17_134828.png.cd240fb2a9dbb6c5a78788908747942f.png

Keep in mind that most of these players do not own the exploration DLC. 

Honestly, I would have been much happier with an update that said “No more updates until we get what’s broken fixed.” 

@bojo2736 @kimbuck @leo_chaos @NoNoNumGum @belrathius @Laiiix

On 9/15/2020 at 2:05 AM, Adam Snellgrove said:

We hear you, but not for the first time.

With the utmost respect, I believe we have not yet been heard. I genuinely believe that more of the same will lead this project to disaster. Bohemia interactive has been promising explore updates for years now and let’s be honest, they have delivered a lot: 

Amazing new graphics
Underwater exploration
New units
More challenge
We have no issue with the amazing improvements, we have an issue with the approach. Test more. 

Edited by RedEagle_P1.

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hopefully the more people that are attracted to the game because of the new features will be testing bugs

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What we've discovered so far on servers is that: 

X -> The number of players on the server
Y -> The distance they travel
Z -> How fast the server dies

X*Y = Z

Basically, the more players load/do, the less the servers last. 

With so much more to explore, won't servers just die really fast?

 

@Houp can you tell us more about the situation as you guys see it from a tech standpoint? What is causing the servers to die? What's the plan to stop it from happening? 

 

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13 hours ago, RedEagle_P1. said:

With the utmost respect, I believe we have not yet been heard.

I sometimes feel the same 😅 As I have mentioned many times before, we are not a huge team, we do not have limitless money and unfortunately, that means we don't have 8 QA people available to play nonstop an Exploration game for a week trying to break it. In this (like many other smaller teams out there) we rely on our community and info that they give us. So unfortunately without the help of the community, we aren't as effective at fixing bugs like we are, when we are working with the community (which we are trying to do). 

We appreciate all community members, that help us out with bugs and it is really cool ,when we can work on making this game better together 😊 And I hope while helping each other out, we figure out these pesky bugs.

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4 hours ago, Adam Snellgrove said:

I sometimes feel the same 😅 As I have mentioned many times before, we are not a huge team, we do not have limitless money and unfortunately, that means we don't have 8 QA people available to play nonstop an Exploration game for a week trying to break it. In this (like many other smaller teams out there) we rely on our community and info that they give us. So unfortunately without the help of the community, we aren't as effective at fixing bugs like we are, when we are working with the community (which we are trying to do). 

We appreciate all community members, that help us out with bugs and it is really cool ,when we can work on making this game better together 😊 And I hope while helping each other out, we figure out these pesky bugs.


First of all I’m just glad we’re discussing the right chapter, I feel like we’ve been talking by each other for a long time and I feel like now are right on target 😁👍.

IMO, if I created Lego blocks and every time I look away everything  created with them would deconstruct, then no one would use my Lego blocks. It would have to be priority to get that issue fixed before I make more Lego blocks.

Back when this game was in early access people simply assumed that this is going to be the problem and felt ok to wait it out. 

However, once the game came out and the bugs were still there they abandoned the project.

The current situation is a situation where you lose players for lack of testing and you have no testing for lack of players. I think a quick comparison of the number of bug reports with logs you get to the number of bugs created in each patch would be an important thing to have.

I think given the enormous player burn rate of the game you have (imho) to look at where the finances go and decide as a company if you want to keep going on this path. The average person who came to my community used to stay with Ylands about a month and now they stay as little as a week. 

These short term players come with a totally different game in mind because of the marketing, they don’t submit any bugs and they don’t get along with anybody or buy anything.

If you are truly opposed and cannot afford more people to put on the quality assurance team then what I would do is I would create a fund by which you hire a group of players for cheap to do that bug testing in for you.

At the current pace bohemia interactive’s reputation is suffering greatly.

I have no idea about DayZ but the players who come from the game are so quick to abandon this one because of the reputation Bohemia interactive has with those players. We would not want Ylands to do the same thing to players.

Ideally we want people to be enamoured with bohemia interactive’s amazing reputation to buy all of their games.

 

 


 

 

 

 

 

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The new map proposal ....   ok it looks  good ...but  will it be  like the current situation..... that is the same  every game ,  with resources   biomes etc always in  the  same position?

That is  what is  killing the  existing game ... there's  no  exploration. Play it once and  you know  where everything is,  where the resources  are,  and then exploit them  first  so no one  else  can use them.

The beauty of the  original game was  trying to find the places ... they were different  and  random,  and the  caves  were a real challenge for those who wanted to explore them., The resources    (iron   etc) were always  surface  veins  so those  who chose  not to  go into the caves could  still  get  material  to craft.  And some of the  random caves in the original games were simply  breathtaking.

The  new  map will  be  great...if its  new MAPS      ( note the plural) ...otherwise it will   just  be the same style game dressed up in frilly  clothes and eventually  produce the same boring  result.

I like Ylands ... especially ..the original  concept....   and,   like Red Eagle,  and others  i  would  love to see it  succeed.   But it has to be more  than a collection of mobile games  and  anime style actions  as used by kids to amuse themselves  for a few minutes.

 

Explore means   more than   kung-fu  jumps  and  running around waving swords  that  make   sparkles  and  sounds...

 

Edited by kimbuck
debugged to make sure it read properly

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7 hours ago, mmalik13042007 said:

WHEN YOU WILL MAKE FREE IT IMAGINE 5 MILLION BUYS COYNS NOT A BIG DEAL BUT EXPLORATION IS THE GATE TO ENTER BUT IT IS LOCK, THE PLAYERS.ENCOURAGE THEM.BUT THE CREATOR OF THIS GAME DONT LISTEN THEY THINK I M TALKING RUBBISH.BUT WHEN I SAY THIS CAN BE HAPPENED .IN COVID YOU MUST FREE IT PLAYERS WILL COME TO THIS GAME.

As you say, you are indeed talking rubbish.  The only way that they can make a game free to play is if they put in lots of microtransactions that are often seen as necessary to enjoy the game.  Their existing approach is far more reasonable - free chance to see what the game is capable of in terms of the sandbox, and then a single, one-time price to unlock the full game potential.  While  I may be frustrated with the direction the game has taken in the last year, I definitely feel that their primary business model is correct.  The approach is more customer-centric and customer-friendly than most "free" games that require you to spend more and more money along the way just to have fun with your "free" game.

Frankly, their coyns have minimal benefit beyond hosting servers; the extra apparel and pets are strictly cosmetic and the game can be enjoyed without them.  Even the blueprints can be ignored so long as you are willing to spend the time and effort to recreate the objects yourself.  As such, coyns are totally optional or reserved for complete game creators who need to run a server.  Relying on them exclusively to support the company would be incredibly stupid, based on the game structure.

Stop demanding that the main fruits of their labor be free.  Covid is no excuse.  At the end of the day, if you don't like their pricing model, move on.  There are plenty of subpar games out there for "free" that will nickel and dime you to death, eventually costing more than a single, one-time price would have.

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@RedEagle_P1.: as @Adam Snellgrove wrote: there is not much to fix if a bug report is "We played for a week and then it stopped working. Please fix that" (I know I am simplifying it) Even if we would dedicate 8 people to play an explore for a week then it does not mean that they would replicate the issue.

Problem may be just in maps with specific random encounter, problem may be connected to specific set of items in player's inventory, problem .. You probably see now. Most probably it is not about playing a week but about that really special situation had happened and after that part of the game was broken. In 1.4 there were several bug fixes which you may see as "after playing for a while the game stop to work". (to be more specific there could be problem with "Delay instruction" or attaching game logic labels)

Providing us logs (both from server and client) when server "dies" can help us a lot.

 

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10 hours ago, Houp said:

@RedEagle_P1.: as @Adam Snellgrove wrote: there is not much to fix if a bug report is "We played for a week and then it stopped working. Please fix that" (I know I am simplifying it) Even if we would dedicate 8 people to play an explore for a week then it does not mean that they would replicate the issue.

Problem may be just in maps with specific random encounter, problem may be connected to specific set of items in player's inventory, problem .. You probably see now. Most probably it is not about playing a week but about that really special situation had happened and after that part of the game was broken. In 1.4 there were several bug fixes which you may see as "after playing for a while the game stop to work". (to be more specific there could be problem with "Delay instruction" or attaching game logic labels)

Providing us logs (both from server and client) when server "dies" can help us a lot.

 

You're kidding, I hope.  I can't tell you the number of reports and logs I personally have sent.  @RedEagle_P1. absolutely has.  Back when he was having issues with server death regularly, he offered BI access to the P1 servers to see what was actually going on.

I have a request about not being able to upload to Nitrado that even though I have typed the same problem a couple of times, I get told wrong information.  I don't know how to put in logs for I can't upload. This time I included screencaps. 

This response was rude, frankly. 

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You're kidding, I hope.  I can't tell you the number of reports and logs I personally have sent.  @RedEagle_P1. absolutely has.  Back when he was having issues with server death regularly, he offered BI access to the P1 servers to see what was actually going on.

 

 

 

This is why i have  stopped  bothering to send in logs   etc , I feel like  i am whistling into the  wind.

I have  been asked to send in logs recently  , but   how? if i cannot  get into a game because it says incorrectly  "server is  full", how  can i get the log ?

Over  and out !

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On 9/21/2020 at 9:21 AM, Houp said:

Problem may be just in maps with specific random encounter, problem may be connected to specific set of items in player's inventory, problem .. You probably see now. Most probably it is not about playing a week but about that really special situation had happened and after that part of the game was broken. In 1.4 there were several bug fixes which you may see as "after playing for a while the game stop to work". (to be more specific there could be problem with "Delay instruction" or attaching game logic labels)

Providing us logs (both from server and client) when server "dies" can help us a lot.

Thanks so much for the technical info!  It always helps to get your understand what the problem is. 

For the last three years we have maps die consistently after a certain number of hours of play.

They tend to do so after following the formula I mentioned earlier. 

X -> The number of players on the server
Y -> The distance they travel
Z -> How fast the server dies

X*Y = Z

Basically, the more players load/do, the less the servers last. 

By die we mean that everything gets progressively worse, freezes and crashes or gets so buggy we do the wipe ourselves. This happens on stock explore maps more than our custom maps since we understand certain issues and placed in some changes which help reduce the problems. 

Namely, we reduce terraforming and slightly slow down the pace of exploration and the distance people travel. This makes a big difference. 

If BI can get some testers to do 8 hours of play in 2 sessions on the same server you will find many of the issues we find. Everything on the surface-level is basically working but its just beyond that basic level that we run into a lot of issues. 

We thought there was a known issue being fixed concerning data storage? 

Due to the nature of the average exploration game coming up with a set of things that happened before the crash is very difficult. There are just so many things you can do in Exploration and you don't know what led to the issue. I don't believe players will ever help fix these issues for that reason. 

If a person like me goes about deliberately seeking the issues it's not easy to find, it would take me hours from scratch. And unfortunately getting logs from players at this point is very difficult as the loyal player base is mostly replaced by a transient player base. 

 

To @Adam Snellgrove there seems to be a huge disconnect between Bohemia interactive's understanding of the issues and the everyday experience of the stock explore players. 

I would try to dig a little bit deeper and try to really uncover what's going on as I think it may be "hidden in plain sight" so to speak, misunderstood. 

 

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On 9/22/2020 at 12:51 PM, kimbuck said:

I have  been asked to send in logs recently  , but   how? if i cannot  get into a game because it says incorrectly  "server is  full", how  can i get the log ?

When something happens in your game (like not being able to connect to a server) you can then switch Ylands off and search here: \Program Files(86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Ylands\Ylands_Data

There will be a few files there, and two of them (output_logs and output_logs_clean) are the ones we're looking for 😊

 

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On 9/22/2020 at 4:10 AM, bojo2736 said:

You're kidding, I hope.  I can't tell you the number of reports and logs I personally have sent.  @RedEagle_P1. absolutely has.  Back when he was having issues with server death regularly, he offered BI access to the P1 servers to see what was actually going on.

I have a request about not being able to upload to Nitrado that even though I have typed the same problem a couple of times, I get told wrong information.  I don't know how to put in logs for I can't upload. This time I included screencaps. 

This response was rude, frankly. 

Not kidding but my it was my mistake. Most common process for bugs reported by you is that they are registered in our bug tracking system. After that our testers try to reproduce them. If they are successful then it is great and the issue is assigned to a developer. Othwervise it is still handled. It is assigned to our leader programmer who checks provided log files and then he assign the issue to a specific person.

I was not aware of these bugs because  it was not probably decided that I am personally responsible for them. I misunderstood @Adam Snellgrove's post in this thread.

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Hi there

Is there any new NEWS /ETA on this news exploration 1.5 update??

I cant wait that dev's bring back the exploration goodness in this game!!

 

Cheerz

Vega

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57 minutes ago, ocnoglittle said:

ETA for Update 1.5 is after the contest ends (Dec 12th). Maybe Adam can narrow it down to how long after.  :)

Not long after 😊

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6 hours ago, Adam Snellgrove said:

Not long after 😊

Just so you know whenever we had updates during competitions with a Chinese version of the game it led to disastrous consequences with many peoples games which were previously functional breaking so you probably have to test all of the games before you update the game because updates break games consistently patch after patch. Even how blocks are exported turns the blocks the wrong way so people can’t see how to build originally look, glow looks different, certain scripts stop functioning, there’s so much that happens and it’s happened every single patch up to this time please please please reconsider.

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