Dev Diary #31

[Baz Foobar 102]

Honestly at this point, fix MP and make sure it works, then release it.  You're losing interested players otherwise.  MP can be a very frustrating experience for some people, I've seen it firsthand both as a player and as a dedicated server admin.

As it stands, I'm keeping my DS down until 0.8 - I look forward to seeing improvements.

[StarButterToast 5]

kinda breaks my heart ah but if its gonna be even better im sure its worth the wait

[Stephenw1992 87]

14 minutes ago, Aleš Ulm said:

Also I have some bad news - we won't be releasing the update today  .

These things happen! players will just have to wait a couple more days to find their way home

I'm about to record a video with a full tutorial on how to set up a dedicated server. I'm just curious, before i do, are there any changes to the DS files (besides updating alongside 0.8)?

Edited March 26, 2018 by Stephenw1992

[Khanecz 79]

14 minutes ago, Stephenw1992 said:

These things happen! players will just have to wait a couple more days to find their way home

I'm about to record a video with a full tutorial on how to set up a dedicated server. I'm just curious, before i do, are there any changes to the DS files (besides updating alongside 0.8)?

No changes to the DS files, updating alongside 0.8 will be enough

[Eaglestorm13 2]

37 minutes ago, Aleš Ulm said:

Hi guys,

I'm sorry, but I will answer your questions about the cloud save tomorrow - we have more work on our hands than expected.

Also I have some bad news - we won't be releasing the update today  . This morning we finally got logs that we can use to fix one more very nasty MP issue (related to players getting disconnected). We've just had a discussion about whether we should release the update now (especially since we already postponed it once) and release the fix later as a patch - and after talking about it a bit decided against it.

Obviously there has to be a moment where the update needs to be released regardless of how close we are to fixing more stuff...

...but releasing it while it still contains a critical issue that leads to players getting disconnected that we know we can now fix feels wrong. Also it we want to have this present in the update since bug fixing (especially with issues related to MP) is something that the community is most unhappy about (and we know that some players return to the game with every new update to see if it got better and so later patches do nothing for them).  And lastly - creating a patch always generates some unnecessary overhead.

The update will definitely be released this week - but I won't do the same mistake of announcing the exact day again. Let's just say that we think it won't take long.

Please accept my apology, we should have known better  
  

Pleas optimize it while your at it

[Seathre 33]

37 minutes ago, Aleš Ulm said:

Hi guys,

I'm sorry, but I will answer your questions about the cloud save tomorrow - we have more work on our hands than expected.

Also I have some bad news - we won't be releasing the update today  . This morning we finally got logs that we can use to fix one more very nasty MP issue (related to players getting disconnected). We've just had a discussion about whether we should release the update now (especially since we already postponed it once) and release the fix later as a patch - and after talking about it a bit decided against it.

Obviously there has to be a moment where the update needs to be released regardless of how close we are to fixing more stuff...

...but releasing it while it still contains a critical issue that leads to players getting disconnected that we know we can now fix feels wrong. Also it we want to have this present in the update since bug fixing (especially with issues related to MP) is something that the community is most unhappy about (and we know that some players return to the game with every new update to see if it got better and so later patches do nothing for them).  And lastly - creating a patch always generates some unnecessary overhead.

The update will definitely be released this week - but I won't do the same mistake of announcing the exact day again. Let's just say that we think it won't take long.

Please accept my apology, we should have known better  
  

Good decision, thanks for your hard work! 

[Stephenw1992 87]

Just now, Eaglestorm13 said:

Pleas optimize it while your at it

this is generally part of the ongoing optimisation process for any alpha.

major optimisation is usually left til last so everything can be balanced and added

[bojo2736 1016]

If it fixes a connection problem, then I am all for it. Last night, I literally had to do around ten reconnects including three hard resets, and finally had to give up in frustration.

[TheSparkPlug 128]

1 hour ago, Aleš Ulm said:

Something...

Well, I can’t speak for everyone but...

the mere fact that you updated us, and gave some reasons for the delay, is very much appreciated.  

[WijkagentAdrie 384]

1 hour ago, Aleš Ulm said:

Hi guys,

I'm sorry, but I will answer your questions about the cloud save tomorrow - we have more work on our hands than expected.

Also I have some bad news - we won't be releasing the update today  . This morning we finally got logs that we can use to fix one more very nasty MP issue (related to players getting disconnected). We've just had a discussion about whether we should release the update now (especially since we already postponed it once) and release the fix later as a patch - and after talking about it a bit decided against it.

Obviously there has to be a moment where the update needs to be released regardless of how close we are to fixing more stuff...

...but releasing it while it still contains a critical issue that leads to players getting disconnected that we know we can now fix feels wrong. Also it we want to have this present in the update since bug fixing (especially with issues related to MP) is something that the community is most unhappy about (and we know that some players return to the game with every new update to see if it got better and so later patches do nothing for them).  And lastly - creating a patch always generates some unnecessary overhead.

The update will definitely be released this week - but I won't do the same mistake of announcing the exact day again. Let's just say that we think it won't take long.

Please accept my apology, we should have known better  
  

Like most other players I don't see any problem with this, any MP fix should be prio #1  

[BubbaHoTep 0]

Guys, i appreciate the hard work you put into this but honestly your perception of what is the biggest problem could not be any further away from reality. Your will is to create an awesome building game yet the performance is so bad that the game punishes you for building atm. Players get huge performance drops throughout the whole game with freezes and spikes that get so bad after you built more than just a few houses. that is no fun at all. The problem even intensifies during MP play and makes this game a huuuuge struggle atm. I own a very strong pc with badass internet connection, massive CPU and RAM and still i get slowed down and cannot play after a certain point. The server i (tried to) host consumes about 16GB RAM which is a lot but shouldnt be too bad because i could throw in about 60GB, how come the game lags so bad that it is unplayable? Not to speak of the poor guys who have less resources? At this point you can enjoy a wooden house on the yland, everything more is simply unenjoyable. Look at videos from youtubers playing your game (aka Keralis) and tell me expecting a spike every minute makes this game fun. New players or undecided ones do care most about if their game is playable or not and not some other stuff, yet i do not see this is addressed or commented anywhere? Do not take this as rant, dont get me wrong, i love the game, but noticing this doesnt seem to be your top priority is simply put infuriating. Please please for the love of god make this your No.1 goal.

[kimbuck 746]

well,  its obvious  we are  not  there yet.......

 

( said in  jest  ..and not as a criticism.... if it  fixes  MP  issues, its   needed, as MP  can get  quite unplayable at the moment... more time is  spent rescuing players who  lose  things through  disconnects, lag and  ship glitches  than in explore

off to sit in a corner and sulk as there's no use    playing the  current version .......)

Edited March 26, 2018 by kimbuck

[Aleš Ulm 1725]

Alright - here's some additional info about the cloud save (we will be posting more info over the course of next few weeks)

First of all it should be noted that this is an experimental feature so pretty much anything can still change

* there will always be only one save game version available to players - those who will want to play this game will have to be online in order to do so so that it is always clear if the game is already hosted by anyone or is "offline" waiting for someone to start it

* you will have full control over your data with possibility of removing any games from the cloud save at any time

* in the first iteration there won't be any automated way for the current host to have someone host the game when they log off. First they will have to log off and as soon as they do and the game quits, any player with an active avatar in the world will be able to start it again as the new host.

[Baz Foobar 102]

Will players have the ability to bring the save file into their editor, make changes, and push it back out to the cloud save so that the next person who hosts it will get that same version?  Also, I presume these worlds are not eligible for the monetization parameters described previously for Official Servers?

Edited March 27, 2018 by Baz Foobar

[Onedown 28]

On 3/26/2018 at 2:42 PM, BubbaHoTep said:

Players get huge performance drops throughout the whole game with freezes and spikes that get so bad after you built more than just a few houses. that is no fun at all.

I agree 100% they aren't going to get a lot of feedback from players who stop playing because of the lagging.  I've stopped playing completely and all I can offer is suggestions for future additions.  I cannot report bugs if I am not playing.  The only suggestion I have for devs is to make the game more playable for as many players as possible regardless of if it's SP or MP.

[WijkagentAdrie 384]

1 hour ago, Onedown said:

I agree 100% they aren't going to get a lot of feedback from players who stop playing because of the lagging.  I've stopped playing completely and all I can offer is suggestions for future additions.  I cannot report bugs if I am not playing.  The only suggestion I have for devs is to make the game more playable for as many players as possible regardless of if it's SP or MP.

^ Exactly this. I think key to a good early access is to get as many people to play the game as possible. Having a good, fun multiplayer experience will tenfold hours played.

[kimbuck 746]

Hopefully,  before they add more chrome plating to the engine, and  add extra  aerials  with  flags,  they can smooth out the  bumps on the  wheels and make the game  run longer  before the  engine  clogs up!

The players  experience and enjoyment should be attended to  first,  and although  this is a clever idea and an innovation,  we hope it doesn't  draw resources  away form developing a better, smoother,  reliable running  game!

Gamers are an impatient lot... they  don't want to wait  for  things, they expect it now....  already  i hear of  talk  on different forums about groups  moving elsewhere if   they don't find what they want.

Luckily  for  BI   i am and old  "stick-in-the-mud"  and   don't rush out   buying   games  on a whim  every day....

so far  i have got  my money's  worth of  enjoyment, and  hoping  for  more!

[Aleš Ulm 1725]

Alright, let's talk about the performance:

I totally understand your frustration. We do know that players are unhappy about that. We see them leave and wait if things get better. We see our Steam ratings dive because of MP bugs and game not optimized enough with absolute majority of the negative reviews saying something like "The game would be great if it wasn't for...". We are not living in some kind of our own reality bubble where everything is fine  and the more new features we put in the happier everyone gets.

What's going on is actually pretty simple:

There are gameplay programmers and there are "core" programmers. Gameplay programmers add features, fix feature-related issues and so on. Core programmers get their hands dirty by making the game run in MP, by optimizing game etc. Both groups have somewhat different skillsets and area of expertise. You can't simply take a gameplay programmer and tell him to "fix this MP issue" or "optimize the game". Not only it literally takes months to become familiar enough with the relevant code to be of any help, but during that time the new programmer usually needs a lot of support from those who would otherwise work exactly on that - MP issues or optimizations.

So we have several gameplay programmers who are good at adding new features and there's no reason for them to sit idle just because  there are issues with MP or game doesn't run as good as it should. Fixing everything in MP and making the game run better is not something that can be done quickly - I commented on this several times and said that it would take months.  We are trying to make this "period of chaos" (any Foundation fans out there?) as short as possible and keep hiring new people, but finding the right people for the job isn't easy and, as I said, then it takes so more time before they can become useful. In another words - there's no need for the game to stagnate for months before it runs as it should. It might result in impression that everyone is working just on fixing the issues - but it simply wouldn't be true.

I really wish there was an easy, quick solution - but there isn't one. Most of the things the players seem to enjoy about the game - the freedom to destroy everything, to terraform, the water simulation (even though far from being perfect), being able to build everything and not only blocks like in Minecraft and thousands of its clones come at a high cost. In many ways we are in the dark, looking to solve things that are not very commonly all combined in other games (and, quite obviously, using 3rd party game engine has a great number of pros but also some major cons as well).

I'm not going to sugar-coat it especially since it's rather obvious - we are still several months away from offering a great MP-experience (which will come sooner) and nicely optimized game (which we be finished - if there's even such a thing as finished - later). Things will be (and have been) improving with every update - this 0.8 comes with some really nice MP-related issues, 0.9 will bring improved saving which will remove a lot of SP games lag etc.

I don't want to play the Early Access card as something that lets us get away with pretty much anything - but it needs to be said. The game is in EA and as such is still buggy and needs to be optimized. We expected to fix those much faster but things are what they are and so we're just bracing ourselves for more (deserved) negative feedback  and continue fixing stuff as fast as we can. You know we really like you guys so please don't take this as us being arrogant or anything, but if you feel like we're letting you down with how the game is right now, put it aside for a few months and come back later. As much as I hate to say this I think it's better than making empty promises about something miraculous happening in a week or two.

And as always - we'll still be here reading your posts, talking to you... We're not going to hide or stop communicating just because things are not going exactly as we want them to  

[TheSparkPlug 128]

You should put this as a separate topic... so we can refer “those” people to it every time they post 

 

(Where’s the ‘evil’ emoticon when you need it!)

[Kage'd 9]

1 hour ago, TheSparkPlug said:

You should put this as a separate topic... so we can refer “those” people to it every time they post 

 

(Where’s the ‘evil’ emoticon when you need it!)

You can already do that.

 

[TheSparkPlug 128]

Thanks for the tip, but I was more concerned about ‘them’ cluttering this thread with their nonsense

 

(whereas my nonsense is allowed to be here )

[bojo2736 1016]

Thank you, @Aleš Ulm, all,I ever wanted was more transparency. I can't be the only nerd fascinated with the process, your answer was very interesting. I think communication is key. 

I can't wait to get my teeth into 0.8.

[Ricktor 1]

Saddens me to say, still nothing addressed about being able to launch the game in offline mode, yet "more spend money stuff". I really like the game and enjoy the brief times I do get to try it, but as it stands this game is now just going on the shelf till this changes. Good luck BI and Ylands team, sadly disappointed. :\

[Aleš Ulm 1725]

@Ricktor The offline version is still planned, but as we said two weeks ago (Dev Diary #29) it will take some time before it comes - while we know there are people who would welcome the offline version (we ourselves like games to have an offline mode) there are currently far more pressing issues to take care of. As for the new items that players can purchase - those have been made by our artists alone and required  pretty much zero effort on the programming side so I can assure you that those are not delaying the offline version in any way.  

[bojo2736 1016]

Personally, I would love to see more purchasable decorative and clothing options. I would prefer to just buy once and then have it in decorations file forever. Even if it meant paying more for the option.

I really want the fancy chair and matching sofa and love seat.