Dev Diary #31

[Aleš Ulm 1725]

Hey there, fellow ylanders!

The update 0.8 is ready for release, but since we try not to release anything major on Fridays (so that the whole team is ready to react even the next day in case any problems appear), it will be released on Monday.

As a consolation, let me use this opportunity to tell you what you can expect in the update 0.9, named “Comfortable Cooperation”. Even though “Meaningful Music” brings some very nice things, it’s much smaller than what 0.9 is going to be, because some of the fixes and features we've been working on are too complex and time-consuming, so they couldn't make it into 0.8. So what are some of the features you can expect in the next update?

Let's start with the feature that gave this update its name. In the past weeks we have gathered your feedback on the current state of the dedicated servers, and in the upcoming days we would like to start discussing with you what issues need to be fixed and what features added to have a nice, solid DS foundation that can be further enhanced (obviously first we need to address the critical issues and features that are missing and only later we’ll get to nice-to-have things).

Just few more days before sailing the high seas becomes more immersive with the new adventurous music introduced by update 0.8
 

Multiplayer mode is extremely important to us. As we fix MP issues (not as quickly as we would like - but looking back to when the game has entered Steam, we’ve already fixed dozens of MP-related issues) and are step by step getting to a working multiplayer experience, we are looking for ways for everyone to enjoy the social aspect of Ylands. There are some features planned to make playing with others more fun, mostly settings that those who start a new game will be able to set - things like PvP vs PvE worlds etc., but we want to make multiplayer more accessible even on a “technical level”, and that’s why in 0.9 we’ll be introducing our cloud save solution.

Usually, the cloud save feature is not really related to MP, but our implementation is different. For us, the cloud save is used to solve the commonly known problem experienced by players who are hosting a game themselves. Their friends can enter the world only as long as the game is up and running. When the one hosting the game doesn’t want to play anymore or has to leave, the game is over. So far the only solution was to play the game on a dedicated server. And that’s where our cloud save comes into play.

Let’s say Tom starts a new game that he’s hosting on his PC. His friends Jane and Peter log in and they all play. At some point, the game session ends by Tom quitting the game. At that point, the current game state is uploaded to the cloud. The next day Jane and Peter want to play, but Tom isn’t available, so Peter simply finds the game they played the day before in the list of recently played games and hits Play. At that point, the latest version of the saved game is downloaded from the cloud to his PC and is started with him hosting it. Jane can join him right away and so can Tom if he changes his mind and decides to play.

Long story short - players will be able to play in the same world whenever they choose to even without hosting it on a dedicated server. Obviously, having a dedicated server will still give you more freedom, but from the feedback we’ve been getting, we think that a lot of you will appreciate this cloud save cooperative multiplayer.

The cloud save data will be stored in third-party data centers (such as Amazon) to make sure they are safe and available everywhere. Every player will have a certain data limit (the more sophisticated the game, the more space it takes) and as long as the sum of your cloud saves doesn’t reach this limit, it’s free. When it goes over, you will have to either remove some of the games from the cloud or purchase additional space. This is necessary because, while we can support players to a certain degree by paying for the storage at the third party provider ourselves, at a certain point players have to step in and pay their share. We’re still figuring out the final numbers, but you certainly don’t have to worry that you would be able to reach the limit with a single game no matter how large.

So that’s the first of the cool features coming with 0.9 - there’s so much more, though, which we'll talk about next Friday. Until then have a great time, ylanders, and stay classy!

[RedEagle_P1. 905]

Looking forward to it!

[Kage'd 9]

Awesome work thus far and thank you to the entire Ylands Team for their hard work and dedication on the game entirely.

[Stephenw1992 87]

2 hours ago, Aleš Ulm said:

We’re still figuring out the final numbers, but you certainly don’t have to worry that you would be able to reach the limit with a single game no matter how large.

you guys really need to get to know me a bit more before making a claim like that!

Edited March 23, 2018 by Stephenw1992

[FSUChief 1]

Awesome. With the cloud save - (Peter, Jane, and Tom already have a save together) If Peter and Jane play without Tom, will Tom have a chance to start from where he last left off, or will that save be replaced by the new save Peter and Jane created? 

[Eaglestorm13 2]

When can we expect sp optimization to fix the shuddering?

[TheSparkPlug 128]

I have to say that I think your “cloud save” solution is very clever. If you guys came up with the concept, then it’s genius!

I appreciate that it’s probably too early for questions, but... I have a couple!   Using your example above, Tom saves the game to the cloud, so that comes off his allowance. After Peter downloads, plays, and presumably re-uploads, is it still part of Tom’s allowance, or is it now Peters?   Also, is there now two versions of the same world on the cloud. If so, how do they know which is the latest?

Also, I think you need to give more thought to the idea of a free allowance. You can’t keep that up forever, and when the time comes for you to have to start charging everyone you will  become “public enemy number one”. Assuming the process is a seemless/integral part of the game, then you should charge - at least a modest fee -  from the outset!   I don’t think anyone can classify that kind of service as a micro-transaction.

[Baz Foobar 102]

13 hours ago, TheSparkPlug said:

I have to say that I think your “cloud save” solution is very clever. If you guys came up with the concept, then it’s genius!

I appreciate that it’s probably too early for questions, but... I have a couple!   Using your example above, Tom saves the game to the cloud, so that comes off his allowance. After Peter downloads, plays, and presumably re-uploads, is it still part of Tom’s allowance, or is it now Peters?   Also, is there now two versions of the same world on the cloud. If so, how do they know which is the latest?

Also, I think you need to give more thought to the idea of a free allowance. You can’t keep that up forever, and when the time comes for you to have to start charging everyone you will  become “public enemy number one”. Assuming the process is a seemless/integral part of the game, then you should charge - at least a modest fee -  from the outset!   I don’t think anyone can classify that kind of service as a micro-transaction.

Since they've already stated that dedicated servers will be rentable, it would make sense that additional cloud save storage beyond some free amount would be feasible using Coyn currency.  I think the notion of free storage sufficient for a save or two with additional demand covered by Coyn to be a reasonable model.  Up until the cost of said storage starting to encroach upon the cost of renting a dedicated server, of course.

[bojo2736 1016]

Awesome idea. I hope it works as described. 

[Aleš Ulm 1725]

Hi everyone! 

Just a few quick lines - I should be able to explain things in detail on Monday (if necessary).

We, indeed, came up with this idea ( or, to be more precise, our CEO Marek Španěl has - so let me thank for your kind words on his behalf  ) - or at least we are not aware of anyone else who is using the cloud save the way we intend to use it.

As for allowance related questions - we're still finalizing this. I think we should be able to give you some answers in about two weeks. 

 

[Grendal 0]

18 hours ago, FSUChief said:

Awesome. With the cloud save - (Peter, Jane, and Tom already have a save together) If Peter and Jane play without Tom, will Tom have a chance to start from where he last left off, or will that save be replaced by the new save Peter and Jane created? 

The way I read it: if Ylands decides it is an MP game and the game ends, it backs the world up to the cloud under the space allotted to the originator of the game and it would also show in any player of the sessions previous plays list. If any of the players choose this previous play then it loads the latest version from the cloud and play resumes. Thus, if either Peter or Jane play the next morning when they quit the cloud would be updated with their changes and if Tom played it that afternoon when he chooses the game from his list it will grab the cloud save version that Peter and Jane or either-or had last uploaded when they last played. Then if that evening the three are playing an are joined by Allen he will now be included in the last played cloud save chain... Seem like an awesome solution to non-dedicated server play... except for my question:

1. What happens if Tom, Peter, or Jane decide to play while one of the others is currently playing and before Ylands saves out a new version to the cloud (since as stated it only does so at the end of the session)?  If a person tries to join a past session does it check to see if that session is currently in use and load them that version instead of the old one?

[WijkagentAdrie 384]

Will there be a possibility to host these maps on our own/3rd party cloud servers? Further, I'm really looking forward to a rewarding MP experience  

[bojo2736 1016]

If playing collaboratively, why would Tom, Peter or Jane want to start on anything but the most recent save?  And what happens if they are all on different saves?  

[TheSparkPlug 128]

Tom doesn’t even like Peter.

[Energritz_ 107]

Why do i get the feeling they are trying to phase out the DS? all i could see is back peddling.. but that's my opinion. (yes I'm salty over 0.7 MP/DS issues.. deal with it)

hmm i have a few opinions on this..

As a DS operator, cloud save system is basically just a locked DS Server essentially... lock it up and basically you have the same system, except its available 24/7, doesn't rely on p2p systems, and lagg from p2p is a non issue.. (p2p = peer to peer), because not everyone has a stable internet connection... and this cloud system would run on this system.

from my perspective, MP/DS systems need to be worked on first, then aux systems... this just creates more work in my opinion is redundant.

sure it provides more ways to play, but the DS system in place can already do this with a bit of config, which then comes into, fixing the original systems in place in the first place so that these extra systems would not be needed..

such as working on a linux distro, cutting down costs of running a DS.. significantly.. not saying you can't do this already with hosted services.. but cost/config seems to be factor here currently, fixing these would solve the need for the above.

 

 

 

 

[V-Alfred 367]

Awesome. First of all, Monday update is really wise decision. Since 0.6 as I've been actively roaming around in this community (Forum or In-game), Friday update is like nightmare in the weekend.  Will wait for your detailed explaination either in Monday or future weeks. I'm looking forward for next awesome updates, keep up the awesome works, Ylands Team!

[kimbuck 746]

are we there yet?       

[V-Alfred 367]

1 hour ago, kimbuck said:

are we there yet?

Oh well.. I guess, my time zone and yours is not that far apart.. but their time zone.. I guess we need to wait until evening..  

[SyxtySyx 184]

18 hours ago, TheSparkPlug said:

Tom doesn’t even like Peter.

Tom's got a thing for Jane and wants Peter out of the picture.

[SyxtySyx 184]

4 hours ago, kimbuck said:

are we there yet?       

No, and stop kicking the back of the seat! Don't make me turn this car around young lady!

[kimbuck 746]

..threatens   to toss  her half melted  icecream   cone over into the   front seat...

 

[Onedown 28]

It's seems to me the cloud save is going to try and emulate what happens on a traditional MMO server just on a smaller scale.  

[StoutCrusher 37]

On 3/23/2018 at 11:15 AM, Aleš Ulm said:

what issues need to be fixed

The Whisper command still does not work. You can even stand next to one another, and it still does not work.

It would be really handy if say, myself (the server host) would like to warn everyone that the server will be restarting in x minutes.

[StarButterToast 5]

It's Monday already is the update there yet? 

(づ￣ ³￣)づ

[Aleš Ulm 1725]

Hi guys,

I'm sorry, but I will answer your questions about the cloud save tomorrow - we have more work on our hands than expected.

Also I have some bad news - we won't be releasing the update today  . This morning we finally got logs that we can use to fix one more very nasty MP issue (related to players getting disconnected). We've just had a discussion about whether we should release the update now (especially since we already postponed it once) and release the fix later as a patch - and after talking about it a bit decided against it.

Obviously there has to be a moment where the update needs to be released regardless of how close we are to fixing more stuff...

...but releasing it while it still contains a critical issue that leads to players getting disconnected that we know we can now fix feels wrong. Also it we want to have this present in the update since bug fixing (especially with issues related to MP) is something that the community is most unhappy about (and we know that some players return to the game with every new update to see if it got better and so later patches do nothing for them).  And lastly - creating a patch always generates some unnecessary overhead.

The update will definitely be released this week - but I won't do the same mistake of announcing the exact day again. Let's just say that we think it won't take long.

Please accept my apology, we should have known better